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Mara
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« on: October 13, 2009, 10:12:11 AM » |
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Wow, any time that we (adoptees) comment "in concert" we get follow up posts of lecture and condescendance! I've found a couple recently on "All Top". Here's one from "Grown In My Heart" for your enjoyment: http://www.growninmyheart .com/an-open-diagoluge-im-there-are-you  |
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« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 10:40:51 AM by dory »
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Mara (birth name: Christine)
"Adoptees are not blank flesh canvasses of which to paint identities on to." -Me
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Amyadoptee
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2009, 10:25:31 AM » |
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We are playing right into the adoption industry's hand with this kind of fighting. We are actually discouraging adoptive parents from working with us as a whole. We need them as much as we need the birth parents.
The adoption industry intentionally pits us against each other. We are letting them do it. In fact, the adoption industry gets a wonderful kick out of this. Here is an article that supports generally our point of view but they ask that we refrain from attacking adoptive parents. There is nothing wrong with a healthy discourse.
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Mei Ling
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2009, 02:46:55 PM » |
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Because people were too busy on either side of the "firing" squads to listen to each other. It's like being in a room filled with shouting and then another person comes in and starts doing MORE shouting. The shouting drowns itself out so nothing gets conveyed.
I've entered a comment but don't know if the discussion will go anywhere.
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PhilM
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2009, 02:49:52 PM » |
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Apparently my rather tame comment (owning that I'm an angry adoptee, but also pointing out that I'm not angry at adoptive parents but angry at society) was not in the realm of open dialogue...
I'm glad some of your comments have been published, but the sort of moderation that goes on with so many of these blogs doesn't help the call to respectful discourse...
I'm too tired for all of this at the moment... Good luck to anyone who wants to fight or who wants to find a way to move forward... I'm just going to go sit in the corner and play with my blocks...
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"and now we're grown up orphans that never knew their names; we don't belong to no one, that's a shame" - Goo Goo Dolls
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joy
Arrogant Bastard
BASTARD OVERLORD
Uber Bastard
 Offline
Posts: 6594
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2009, 03:06:43 PM » |
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Every time I try to go read it, the screen flips to an ad for Dell.
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"Domestic adoption is too scary for me" Katmaku
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ElaineP
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2009, 03:11:35 PM » |
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Mine too! I can't get the website.
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Philomela
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2009, 04:14:31 PM » |
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I absolutely don't care about how adoptive parents feel about what I say.
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PhilM
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2009, 04:27:00 PM » |
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I finally found my original comment... It's still awaiting moderation... Maybe someone here can tell me how I entered the discussion shouting and opening fire on someone... Frankly, I don't see it... I guess I'm just too snotty to be allowed to voice my position:
I think Amy said nearly everything, and did so very well.
I just want to say… I am an “angry” adoptee. (I did not participate in the comment wars you mention, however.) And I’m not angry at adoptive parents in general.
I’m angry at a society that ignores the problems of adoption, and the harm it causes. I’m angry that when I try to talk about these things, I am marginalized and dismissed with comments along the lines of “well, everyone experiences it differently” and “most adoptees I know love their adoptive parents” and others. I am angry that, because I speak out about adoption, people question my love for my adoptive family. And, I admit, I get angry when individuals parrot these messages.
I don’t need a lecture for how to behave in dialogue. I need people willing to engage in it.
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"and now we're grown up orphans that never knew their names; we don't belong to no one, that's a shame" - Goo Goo Dolls
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Mei Ling
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2009, 05:00:25 PM » |
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Probably because they took this I am an “angry” adoptee. out of context. But I LOVE the way you stated this: "I don’t need a lecture for how to behave in dialogue. I need people willing to engage in it." People can also get vibes just by the way the original message was written, intentions or not. I mean, as we all know, go onto sites such as adoptionvoices or whatever - as soon as there's any sign that the conversation might go downhill, people either stop engaging in discussion or they say how all situations are different. |
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andraya
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2009, 05:13:03 PM » |
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LOL! Mine still says awaiting moderation... Abandoned Abandoner says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
October 13, 2009 at 10:07 am
I agree with most of what you have written. My only problem is when I try to speak about my own, very personal, anger at adoption. If I am not blowing most APs butterfly kisses I am not being respectful. I don`t curse or bash or attack specific people, merely speak of what I know personally, yet I am still told I am not “respectful” enough. I would like to add to that respectful part of the discussion… People should try to remember that another person speaking of their personal truths, values and beliefs is NOT an attack at you! It is what it is, someone talking about what they know and they don’t know you!
Adoption is complex, the people involved with adoption are complex, the adoption system is complex. Too often it seems that people internalize everything anyone and everyone says or writes about adoption. We are all here speaking what we know and, mostly, trying to help others see the other side. If we all spend our time blocking out the hard bits that we don’t want to hear we can’t learn a thing and by trying to silence others because they are “angry” is foolish. How can anyone be sure their own adoptee will not become “angry”? Ask my adad! Never in a million years would he have thought, even for a second, that his little angel would be sitting here talking about such difficult topics and, yes, at first he was pissed about it! Now he sees that it was a different time and place when I was born and adopted, a time and place that those who lived it are fighting to make sure is never seen again. Embrace us “angry” adoptees, someday knowing our anger could help you help your child through their own. This proves it to me, they hear what they want to hear and ignore anyone who disagrees. I'm done even trying to "discuss" adoption with rainbow farting fuckwads. D-O-N-E! They don't want opinions, they don't want discussion, they want validation and that is not something I can, or will, give. ETA Phil your comment is GREAT, why isn't it published? See above. |
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PhilM
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2009, 05:31:30 PM » |
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Andraya (and Mei Ling), you are probably right... For a while, I just assumed she hadn't logged on... But as Mei Ling's comment and then Mara's got approved, and mine is still sitting there at 9:51 am, waiting for approval... I just know it's disappeared into moderated-limbo... I left another one... Annoyed, but still not full-blown nuclear angry... I haven't been back... Why bother? My voice doesn't matter. When does it?
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"and now we're grown up orphans that never knew their names; we don't belong to no one, that's a shame" - Goo Goo Dolls
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Mei Ling
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2009, 06:03:44 PM » |
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Why bother? My voice doesn't matter. When does it? Depends on the approach taken. However, there are many adoptive parents out there who won't listen no matter which approach you use. They are truly frightening masses when they are all collectively gathered at any specific blog entry. Then it becomes a matter of a firing zone. One example is the blog entry Mara linked to about a girl who was adopted from a rural region in China. I went over and commented and was very gentle in the way I approached it - if I had been downright blunt, they never would have accepted my comment. And then I got an e-mail from the owner of the blog, thanking me politely - but I received a very strong vibe that my opinion was not wanted. I did respond back quite courteously, but never got another response. So I assume they had no real interest of my opinion unless it was to say how uber!cute their daughter was and how they'd be awesome adoptive parents. Their loss. (Addie once wrote a blog at GIMH about how a prospective parent is like "the drunk at a party." The adoptive parent is probably similar in the early stages of parenthood.) In which case, well, there's not much one can do. It's too easy for people to see all the good adoption has to offer, and far too easy to dismiss all the negativity - no matter how true it is - about the deeper aspects of adoption. |
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andraya
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2009, 06:58:34 PM » |
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Interesting, suddenly the comments are approved... Guess all it took was Phil pointing out the obvious.
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PhilM
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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2009, 07:20:33 PM » |
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Why bother? My voice doesn't matter. When does it? Depends on the approach taken. I know this isn't the way you meant it, Mei Ling... I really do... but all I can hear in this is that my voice only matters if it isn't my voice, but a voice that is someone else's... Interesting, suddenly the comments are approved... Guess all it took was Phil pointing out the obvious.
small miracles... sheesh... |
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"and now we're grown up orphans that never knew their names; we don't belong to no one, that's a shame" - Goo Goo Dolls
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issycat
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2009, 07:36:07 PM » |
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I agree with Phil. It is not my job to please these people or to be pals with them. I wouldn't be friends with an entitled pig IRL, why would I try to pal around with them online?
Many of these people actually DO believe that China is a babystore. I don't think it's necessary to handle them with kidgloves.
I am also not the one who comes out calling people cunts if they disagree with me, that's a potential adopter doing that kind of stuff.
I am so sick of AP's an PAP's telling adoptees how they want them to behave. What gives?
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« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 07:39:35 PM by issycat »
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Whatever...
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